Order Placed: Logitech G502

After all of my ranting and raving about Logitech’s customer service, I still find myself going back to them for my mousing needs. I read some user feedback about the Logitech G502 (~$60, Amazon.com) vs. G700s (what would have been the natural choice), and the sensor in the G502 is rated the tits.

I bought the factory fresh Logitech G502 as opposed to its refurbished cousin. The refurbished Logitech G502 (~$49, Amazon.com) comes with a 90-day parts and labor warranty, whereas the new G502 comes with a 3-year limited parts and labor warranty. I figured that the extra $10 spent was worth the additional coverage in event of mishaps / sudden, unannounced middle mouse button failures. Logitech’s customer service on its products is, after all, good while they remain under warranty.

Look forward to Enotus mouse testing results between the Logitech G700 and the G502 on the Logitech G440 hard gaming mousepad.

a rant on Logitech and an experience with US customer service

Some computer users have stories about hardware and the companies behind them that were very dear to them. I want to tell you my story with Logitech mice.

It started back in middle school. I began playing more first-person shooters on the PC, and I was having quite some fun with them. I knew that my hardware was important, and I invested time into researching the best. This was just about the time that optical mice were stepping onto the scene. I’d already seen improvement to my gaming with an early switch to optical by way of a cheap Samsung mouse.

I’m not sure how Logitech came into the picture for me, but the first Logitech mouse that I seriously considered buying was a Logitech MX310. It was attractively-priced and seemed to hit all the right buttons. But the one that I really wanted was its more-refined big brother, the Logitech MX500.

So it happened that the first Logitech mouse that I owned was a Logitech MX500. I remember getting it from my schoolmate, Justin, when we met up on the first day of school in the eighth grade. He brought it back from the US for me, packed in his suitcase. I had spent hours examining it from the product page, seen it at local computer stores, and it was finally mine.

Logitech then released another neat mouse, the MX518. I got a blue one, and with it, my first hard plastic mousepad, a Ratzpad GS. The MX518 felt alright in hand, but I wasn’t too fond of the glossy shell. I used it faithfully, retiring the MX500 for some time. I recall the MX518 developed issues – it was ultimately tossed out.

I wound up bringing the MX500 with me to college. That same year, my brother started boarding school. Having grown up with the Logitech MX500, it was only natural that he got a Logitech G5. His Logitech G5 was replaced free-of-charge for a Logitech G500 in December 2010. The Logitech G5 had developed a common cord issue.

At roughly the same time, my Logitech MX500 developed a soft failure of the left mouse button switch. I called Logitech on December 2, 2010 to see if they might be able to do something about it, even though I’d never had a proof of purchase. By then, my MX500 had been with me for over five years. Customer service at the time would not offer me a replacement for the discontinued MX500, but they offered me something just as good: 50% off on the G500. I asked if this 50% discount could be applied to other mousing products. Informed that I could use it on a different Logitech mouse, I opted for the G700. Just like that, I had placed an order for a Logitech G700.

I couldn’t be happier. The Logitech G700 featured a bevy of buttons and switches across its body, few of which I ever used until recently. Wireless performance was stellar, though the battery life was fairly short. I loved the familiar shape, a slight evolution over the Logitech MX500 which had captured my heart as a teenager. And who could knock that stellar mouse wheel, with the ability to alternate between modes? When people asked for recommendations on mice, I was quick to suggest the Logitech G700.

Then my Logitech G700 experienced a failure with the middle mouse button. I noticed it in earnest on September 12, 2015, the same day that I upgraded my workstation. The tactile switch behind the mouse wheel gave out, causing the mouse to send middle mouse button presses even when I hadn’t pressed the button. I might be left-clicking, only to find the universal scroll icon taking the place of my regular cursor. As a temporary fix, I unbound the middle mouse button for regular desktop use.

After identifying the problem with my mouse, I began to investigate. I found a terrific blog post by hybridsix on familab https://familab.org/2014/01/logitech-g700-middle-mouse-button-repair/ showing the problem, and a DIY fix that required tearing the mouse down and replacing the tactile switch with a new one. I made a note of this blog post for future reference.

On September 21, 2015, I made a post in the Logitech G Customer Care thread in /r/LogitechG to introduce the issue that I was experiencing. /u/LogitechG_Christina responded that same day, suggesting that I might want to try Logitech’s support team.

I made an account on Logitech’s website, and registered my G700 there.

I made my first call to Logitech on September 22, 2015. Spoke with David, who filed my information under case 01149327. He asked me about some basic troubleshooting steps, which I’d already performed. Told me that he could not offer me anything, because my Logitech G700 was no longer covered under the three-year warranty. I received an email from Logitech advising me of the case number. I laughed a bit upon reading the case subject line: Middle button is stock

Called again on September 24, 2015, asking to revisit case with the agent. Provided additional details: the initial order placed through Logitech US, how the last time that I called was to replace my aging and failing MX500. After a long (30 minutes!) time spent on phone, I was informed again that nothing could be done as the product was out of warranty. Requested escalation. Connected to Dale, a supervisor. After going through my case facts with Dale, I was told the same thing. Asked if anyone else could help. Given another phone number to try, for US corporate.

Called Logitech US’s corporate number: 510-795-8500. The operator forwarded my call over to the escalation department, where I spoke with John. John said that technical support used to offer a discount on out-of-warranty products, but this was no longer the case. Promotional emails and the discounted products page on their website are the only source of discounts now. He said that they couldn’t offer me the deal that I’d gotten in the past, because their systems were no longer equipped to handle them. No resolution; told me that this was the end of the line for contact by phone. I asked John what type of claims were successfully escalated, but he wouldn’t divulge any information.

I fumed for a bit and did some research on the issue, trying to gain a better understanding of it. What I’ve observed is that Logitech continues to handle most issues covered under warranty well. They ought to be lauded for that much. However, I’m certain that the defect rate has gone up considerably since the advent of more complex mouse wheels. These same mouse wheels ostensibly necessitated the move away from micro-switches to tactile switches. (see my notes on Logitech [G] mice and failing middle mouse button tactile switch)

I reasoned that Logitech’s present focus is geared more towards new product sales than it is on customer loyalty. This is reflected through their About Us page (Logitech US), which is written with investors in mind. The bit about product quality is relegated to The Logitech Story page (Logitech US), which offers that they have “[become] the worldwide leader in computer mice.”

I have no doubt in my mind that Logitech makes good mice. They know that they’ve got good mousing products, and that the average user won’t mind purchasing a newer mouse with fancier technology every few years.

What I know is that I once received fantastic after-sales support from Logitech, back in December 2010, and that after-sales support has since taken a hit. It doesn’t feel like the same company. My recent support calls were handled by international call centers. At the end of the day, I still need a mouse. Maybe I’ll go back to basics. Who knows. I really dig the driving philosophy of ZOWIE GEAR:

ZOWIE GEAR is an innovative manufacturer of competitive gaming gear, founded late 2008 with a mission to develop the best competitive gaming gear available.
We are not limited by shareholders telling us what we can or cannot do. We are a free-minded company consisting of experienced and creative individuals, united in ZOWIE on a common ground; our passion for gaming. No boundaries. No compromises. Just gaming.

ZOWIE GEAR has no ambition to become the biggest manufacturer of competitive gaming gear. We just want to be the best. If we can develop products that will increase a gamers performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.

Now, to stay in Logitech’s camp, or GTFO? The writing on the wall from Logitech as of today is clear: the Logitech loyalist is no more important than the first-time buyer. It seems asinine to reward Logitech’s cutting corners with repeat business, even if it comes about once every four to five years.

Logitech (G) mice and failing middle mouse button tactile switch

I dove into this topic a bit while searching for information about what had gone wrong with my Logitech G700. I traced the problem to the middle mouse button after observing that my keyboard’s caps lock indicator light would come on upon switching the mouse profile over to the one that I use for gaming.

An excellent blog post by hybridsix over at familab (familab.org) first introduced me to the culprit, and one possible remedy. The middle mouse button tactile switch on hybridsix’s G700 experienced a mechanical failure as shown in the photos on that site.

hybridsix used an ALPS SKQGAAE010 from Mouser.com: mouser.com/ProductDetail/ALPS/SKQGAAE010/

Here is a thread from the Logitech forums with other users commenting about failed switches: http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/Logitech-G700-Middle-button-broken/td-p/502174

Who knows what the rated cycle count is for these switches. Some fail within warranty period, others fail outside of the warranty. There are individuals using mice that evolved out of the MX500 design for CAD work who’ve had to RMA multiple mice because of middle mouse button failures.

A TechReport.com post by Cyril Kowaliski entitled, “A eulogy for my last good Logitech mouse” http://techreport.com/blog/20907/a-eulogy-for-my-last-good-logitech-mouse

Repair guide written for switch replacement on the Logitech G500 (should be applicable to other similar mice): http://pirikukka.blogspot.fi/2015/05/logitech-g500-mouse-repair-guide-for.html

From the Logitech forums, “The decline of the middle button” (forums.logitech.com)
Another one from the same, “Types of Switches Used in Logitech Mice” (forums.logitech.com)

Apparently, Logitech used Omron micro-switches in the past for its middle mouse buttons. They must have made the transition to tactile switches alongside the mouse wheel assembly, which I am certain has gained significantly in complexity. Whether tactile switches are necessary due to the design of Logitech’s modern mouse wheel assemblies, or are being used in lieu of micro-switches for cost-cutting reasons is anyone’s guess.

Google search for logitech g middle button site:forums.logitech.com or logitech middle button site:forums.logitech.com to turn up thread after thread from the Logitech forums.

brief recap of the day.

Woken by doorbell: a man offering to mow my lawn.

Exhausted my supply of coffee beans.

Called Logitech customer service, and spoke with two different people on my previously-lodged case for 55 minutes. Received no favorable resolution, told that I could call a corporate number (510-795-8500) to escalate my case.

Called the number mentioned above. Spent fifteen minutes talking with some guy who told me that he couldn’t do anything for me. Got miffed, swore that I wouldn’t buy Logitech again, fumed about it a bit more.

Took out Paul and visited a nearby ecig store, where I tried some juices. I bought three small bottles, which should last me for a while.

Got a message from zachvice about doing the King’s Fall raid.

Had a burger, sitting outdoors with Paul.

Came back home and played Destiny until fairly late. Completed the King’s Fall raid with some guys that we picked up off of DestinyLFG.net with a pretty average time of 2 hours, 17 minutes, and 43 seconds. Stuck around with zachvice after Neil hopped off. Wound up in a party with gstad, where I made mention of the million dollar point before turning off my console.

Decided later that this wasn’t really important for him to be messing around with – more important to gain experience, and have fun, without sweating it. Sent a message to him advising as such.

Began composing a long-form article about my experience with Logitech peripherals with the intention of sharing it so that it catches the eyes of some Logitech peeps, and doesn’t wind up getting lost in small bits and pieces.